Dr. Debra Soh, Dan Savage Try to Have Nuanced Porn Discussion on ‘Bill Maher’

In episode #500 of “Real Time with Bill Maher,” which aired this past weekend on June 21, Dr. Debra Soh and media pundit Dan Savage bounced assertions about the intersections between porn viewing and sex behavior. Interestingly, while both were correct, both sets of assertions were also incomplete.

During the exchange, which also featured guests Allan Lichtman, Thom Hartmann and Liz Mair on standby, program host Bill Maher starts off by asking Soh if he may ask her “one more super volatile question.” She gives her consent with apparent good humor — “Sure… that’s what I’m here for,” she says and smiles.

Maher then launches in with his query regarding news he’s been reading about younger people and “teens” having less sex. He asks Soh to weigh in regarding this pattern and states he’s read her position summed up as being attributed — in part — to “toxic masculinity” and related ideas.

Soh begins her response with a discussion of toxic masculinity as “what’s being taught on college campuses as normal and acceptable.” She states: “If this is what students are being taught, then men are understandably afraid… #MeToo went off the rails, and [men are] afraid that maybe someone they had consensual sex with might decide that…”

At this point, Maher interrupts Soh (not for the first time) and interjects, “Because of like the Aziz Ansari thing, like that kind of thing?”

Nodding, Soh continues: “…and ten years later she’s going to come out and say that it wasn’t consensual.”

Maher is then apparently shocked. “Really? Actual people are like worried about that?” he asks.

“Oh yeah,” Soh confirms.

Then Savage jumps in.

“I’m old enough to remember when the sex panic was kids were having too much sex, and now the sex panic is people are having too little sex,” Savage says.

He continues: “One of the things I think is a factor here is the availability of porn. There are studies that show that as more porn became available — the lie that we were told was ‘porn is the theory, rape is the practice,’ and the more porn you watch the more prone to sexual violence you’re going to be… or society’s going to be.”

“That’s not true,” Soh then interjects.

Savage had prefaced his statement as being “the lie we were told” though so he knows the notion that porn somehow leads to sexual violence is false. He then continues to say that, “It was the opposite. As porn became more available, rates of sexual violence went down… but also, perhaps rates of sexual activity [went down as well].”

“No,” Soh interjects. “Rates of sexual activity actually go up. Rates of sexual activity are correlated, so more frequent sex is actually correlated with porn viewing.” And then she brings the conversation back to Maher’s actual question.

Though both Soh and Savage are trying hard and doing good jobs fighting the good fight here, both are incorrect in their assertions. Actually, “incorrect” is not the correct word. They are incomplete. Their statements are both generalizations, neither of which are based in actual research, which renders them differently, but equally, inaccurate.

Here are the issues.

First, there are no “studies” — like actual rigorous and replicable research studies — that say porn consumption leads to violence. In their own respective ways, Savage and Soh both say this is false, which is good. This issue here, however, is that many people believe these “studies” exist. Savage’s statement gives credence to the idea that there are “studies” to these ends, which serves to perpetuate inaccuracies on multiple levels. A clearer articulation that these ideas are often presented as factual research but are, in fact, not would have been much better.

Yes, nitpicking. Precision of language is important though!

Further, in terms of problems, Savage says that as porn availability goes up, sexual behavior decreases. Maybe, like in some age groups and other demographics? He doesn’t specify, nor is there any research to support this conclusions. Also, is “jerking it” — as he says — not sexual activity? It is, and he is casting a value judgement about what “counts” (and doesn’t count) as sex behavior via this assertion. Point being, his assessment about decreased sex behavior may be true in some instances, but definitely not to the degree he implies.

On the flip side, Soh says the opposite, that “more frequent sex is actually correlated with porn viewing.” Also, maybe? Maybe in some age groups and other demographics, such as younger people imitating the sex behavior they see depicted in adult content. Like Savage, she doesn’t specify. Further, like Savage’s implied “jerking off is not sex behavior” statement, Soh’s uncritical implied assertion that imitating porno sex is sex behavior also questionable.

Between jerking off (which apparently doesn’t count) and imitating sexual stunts (which apparently does), there is a more nuanced way to discuss incidents of sex behavior. All that said though, the main takeaway here is this: We need more rigorous facts and nuanced discussion about the intersections between porn consumption and sex behavior. Both Savage and Soh are trying, which is great. It’s a pretty impossible task to undertake in mere moments, and both gave it a good effort.

Photo by Fancycrave.com.